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W6: Chat 5- Ethics

By Emily on October 12, 2015

Is there an ethical concern with using ad-driven tools, such as Google Search and Facebook in the classroom?
Do the benefits of social media out-weigh the cost in terms of the loss in quality of F2F interactions?
As entrepreneurs in education, are we really able to serve students’ interests as well as the bottom line?

(To see the directions again for how to Chat on this site, click here.)

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18 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5: I think there should be awareness for students to know how the Google Search Engine operates. Students have become so familiar with this search engine that it becomes all they know how to use and so it is important for other perspectives to be viewed to see the differences that arise. I think it also important to have a balance of both of F2F interactions and social media. There is a place for social media at school but it needs to be introduced and used in a way so that students can be expected to maintain a level of appropriate digital citizenship when using the online technology.

18 Oct
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rskucas @rskucas

Chat 5: I think there should be awareness for students to know how the Google Search Engine operates. Students have become so familiar with this search engine that it becomes all they know how to use and so it is important for other perspectives to be viewed to see the differences that arise. I think it also important to have a balance of both of F2F interactions and social media. There is a place for social media at school but it needs to be introduced and used in a way so that students can be expected to maintain a level of appropriate digital citizenship when using the online technology.

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18 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5: I really like this question that your group has posed. I think that it is so important to teach students how ad-driven tools work. I have collaborated with a group of teachers at a high school to create a unit on web literacy. We used much of Alan November's web literacy books for educators to help create the lessons. We decided in the social studies department that all grade 9 social studies students will be taught this unit. Part of the lesson focuses on how google and other ad-driven search engines actually "follow" your activity and change your search results accordingly. We even do experimentation with this by having students search the same thing on different personal devices. The students are actually shocked. Do the benefits of social media out-weigh the cost in terms of the loss in quality of F2F interactions? I think that the use of social media has its advantages and disadvantages. The use of social media allows students to converse with people from all over the world and access material that they normally wouldn't have access to. Face to face interaction is also important and often students are lacking the skills to communicate in person with "real: people. I think a mixture of each is necessary to survive in this digital age.

18 Oct
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brittany reid @breid84

Chat 5: I really like this question that your group has posed. I think that it is so important to teach students how ad-driven tools work. I have collaborated with a group of teachers at a high school to create a unit on web literacy. We used much of Alan November's web literacy books for educators to help create the lessons. We decided in the social studies department that all grade 9 social studies students will be taught this unit. Part of the lesson focuses on how google and other ad-driven search engines actually "follow" your activity and change your search results accordingly. We even do experimentation with this by having students search the same thing on different personal devices. The students are actually shocked. Do the benefits of social media out-weigh the cost in terms of the loss in quality of F2F interactions? I think that the use of social media has its advantages and disadvantages. The use of social media allows students to converse with people from all over the world and access material that they normally wouldn't have access to. Face to face interaction is also important and often students are lacking the skills to communicate in person with "real: people. I think a mixture of each is necessary to survive in this digital age.

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18 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5: What an excellent question. "Do the benefits of social media outweigh the cost in terms of loss of quality F2F interactions"? I actually posted about this in my personal reflection as I feel quite passionate about losing the quality of conversation between individuals. I do think we have to look at the big picture though. We are having so many more connections than we had prior to social media and electronic communication, and yes many of these are in just a few characters but they can lead to opportunities for conversations with others you may not have ever come across. As Sherry Turkle discusses in her excellent video on the site, we have to be aware of the difference between communication and real conversation and choose mindfully when to call or have a F2F interaction instead.

18 Oct
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Sandy M @sanmag1

Chat 5: What an excellent question. "Do the benefits of social media outweigh the cost in terms of loss of quality F2F interactions"? I actually posted about this in my personal reflection as I feel quite passionate about losing the quality of conversation between individuals. I do think we have to look at the big picture though. We are having so many more connections than we had prior to social media and electronic communication, and yes many of these are in just a few characters but they can lead to opportunities for conversations with others you may not have ever come across. As Sherry Turkle discusses in her excellent video on the site, we have to be aware of the difference between communication and real conversation and choose mindfully when to call or have a F2F interaction instead.

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17 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5:… This is a very good question. I am torn on the idea of corporate advertising in the educational space. On one hand, Google makes some fantastic and valuable products. On the other hand, I really wish they didn’t rely on advertising to finance those products. It would be great if there was a more cost-effective way to do it but since schools are getting more and more fiscally conservative, I don’t think there ever will be. So, I suppose that this is the environment we have to live with. It would be great if there were comparable tools. I think that it is only an ethical concern right now because we are at an epoch where things are changing with how we interact with information on the Internet. These questions will look minuscule in 10-15 years time when more invasive and encompassing ways of using data will be commonplace. I think that social media has a really beneficial time and place but I feel like face-to-face has an equal value. We shouldn’t sacrifice F2F for social media and vice versa. Finding that balance seems to be the tricky part of living in the web 2.0 world. With regards to education, since we are limited in the amount of time that we can influence (control) the interactions of our students, I think that pushing F2F in the classroom is important. Mainly because social media and Internet-based communication is happening in such large quantities outside of school hours. Probably more than F2F. As Cathy said below, “Every decision made in education serves someone's bottom line somewhere.” We are limited as educators by the systems we exist in. Hopefully those systems have the students’ interest as a priority. Perhaps that is going to be the next great revolution in education; free and personalized learning for everyone.

17 Oct
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Patrick Conlan @pconlan

Chat 5:… This is a very good question. I am torn on the idea of corporate advertising in the educational space. On one hand, Google makes some fantastic and valuable products. On the other hand, I really wish they didn’t rely on advertising to finance those products. It would be great if there was a more cost-effective way to do it but since schools are getting more and more fiscally conservative, I don’t think there ever will be. So, I suppose that this is the environment we have to live with. It would be great if there were comparable tools. I think that it is only an ethical concern right now because we are at an epoch where things are changing with how we interact with information on the Internet. These questions will look minuscule in 10-15 years time when more invasive and encompassing ways of using data will be commonplace. I think that social media has a really beneficial time and place but I feel like face-to-face has an equal value. We shouldn’t sacrifice F2F for social media and vice versa. Finding that balance seems to be the tricky part of living in the web 2.0 world. With regards to education, since we are limited in the amount of time that we can influence (control) the interactions of our students, I think that pushing F2F in the classroom is important. Mainly because social media and Internet-based communication is happening in such large quantities outside of school hours. Probably more than F2F. As Cathy said below, “Every decision made in education serves someone's bottom line somewhere.” We are limited as educators by the systems we exist in. Hopefully those systems have the students’ interest as a priority. Perhaps that is going to be the next great revolution in education; free and personalized learning for everyone.

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16 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Every decision made in education serves someone's bottom line somewhere. Whether we buy this product or that text book supports one company over another. When we chose to use Apple or PC we are giving a preference to a product. Some may see this as persuasion, but do we as educators consider the brand or what the product can do for us, the best fit, the best educational value? Google and Facebook are free products supported by advertising, as long as we teach appropriate, safe and responsible use of social media I don't think there is an ethical concern. Having said that, Google may have a hidden agenda for providing Google Education apps to educators and students. They can gather a great deal of information from students that goes to marketing for the next generation of consumers. Should we be supporting that? I don't think we have a choice, unless you are far off the grid I think there is always someone mining data from you. F2F interactions have changed. They will continue to change as our culture evolves around technology. Every new advancement in communication has changed how we interact, communicate and function in the world. Writing changed the verbal context, books changed our memories, Google changed them again. Social-media changes how we communicate. Would you get rid of books because they changed how we remember? We need to forge ahead and determine how we want to communicate with each other, finding a balance between technology and F2F interactions. If you asked digital natives if there was a problem with their F2F communication, they would say no. They don't see the problem and they are getting their work done and moving us forward. I predict this will not be an issue for my grandchildren.

16 Oct
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Cathy Fowler @cfowler

Every decision made in education serves someone's bottom line somewhere. Whether we buy this product or that text book supports one company over another. When we chose to use Apple or PC we are giving a preference to a product. Some may see this as persuasion, but do we as educators consider the brand or what the product can do for us, the best fit, the best educational value? Google and Facebook are free products supported by advertising, as long as we teach appropriate, safe and responsible use of social media I don't think there is an ethical concern. Having said that, Google may have a hidden agenda for providing Google Education apps to educators and students. They can gather a great deal of information from students that goes to marketing for the next generation of consumers. Should we be supporting that? I don't think we have a choice, unless you are far off the grid I think there is always someone mining data from you. F2F interactions have changed. They will continue to change as our culture evolves around technology. Every new advancement in communication has changed how we interact, communicate and function in the world. Writing changed the verbal context, books changed our memories, Google changed them again. Social-media changes how we communicate. Would you get rid of books because they changed how we remember? We need to forge ahead and determine how we want to communicate with each other, finding a balance between technology and F2F interactions. If you asked digital natives if there was a problem with their F2F communication, they would say no. They don't see the problem and they are getting their work done and moving us forward. I predict this will not be an issue for my grandchildren.

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16 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5: Face to face community building is a key foundation of a positive digital environment. As I mentioned in Chat 4, social media introductions can be done through the use of “analog” media environments where students are interacting in the classroom space instead of online. Building this face to face rapport is necessary before attempting to build up a digital profile with students. With that being said, much of the media use that occurs should also be debriefed in a face to face environment, especially when students are new to using technology to discuss their academic world. This is obviously up to every individual teacher, but I believe that in our failure to initiate these conversations, we miss two big opportunities: 1) We are shutting the door to conversations about what happens in the digital space, and students might not initiate a conversation when something goes wrong online - this is a safety issue; and 2) We miss out on students’ unique insights and further learning that they may have done as a result of reviewing their peers’ work or speaking to an expert. Just because they thought it, doesn’t mean it was posted; talking is still necessary! I loved the Turkle video that was shared in your project. So much in fact, that I tweeted it out myself!

16 Oct
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Victoria @volson

Chat 5: Face to face community building is a key foundation of a positive digital environment. As I mentioned in Chat 4, social media introductions can be done through the use of “analog” media environments where students are interacting in the classroom space instead of online. Building this face to face rapport is necessary before attempting to build up a digital profile with students. With that being said, much of the media use that occurs should also be debriefed in a face to face environment, especially when students are new to using technology to discuss their academic world. This is obviously up to every individual teacher, but I believe that in our failure to initiate these conversations, we miss two big opportunities: 1) We are shutting the door to conversations about what happens in the digital space, and students might not initiate a conversation when something goes wrong online - this is a safety issue; and 2) We miss out on students’ unique insights and further learning that they may have done as a result of reviewing their peers’ work or speaking to an expert. Just because they thought it, doesn’t mean it was posted; talking is still necessary! I loved the Turkle video that was shared in your project. So much in fact, that I tweeted it out myself!

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16 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat #5: I feel this comes down to a "cost vs. reward" question. Take Google for example. Then you make an account you get access to countless FREE Google apps. Gmail, Maps, Calendar, Drive, Hangouts, Docs, etc. You get many of the benefits of countless payed programs for free. Well, mostly free. You do however give them access to anything and everything you do on their apps. So it can be expected that every email and web search is run through a filter so that Google can attempt to tailor advertisements specifically to you. In my mind, students having a school Gmail account and using the suite of Gapps is invaluable to their learning. Having some emails scanned by an electronic filter to target some advertising is a fair price to pay in my opinion. I see no ethical issues here whatsoever.

16 Oct
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Caleb @poolec

Chat #5: I feel this comes down to a "cost vs. reward" question. Take Google for example. Then you make an account you get access to countless FREE Google apps. Gmail, Maps, Calendar, Drive, Hangouts, Docs, etc. You get many of the benefits of countless payed programs for free. Well, mostly free. You do however give them access to anything and everything you do on their apps. So it can be expected that every email and web search is run through a filter so that Google can attempt to tailor advertisements specifically to you. In my mind, students having a school Gmail account and using the suite of Gapps is invaluable to their learning. Having some emails scanned by an electronic filter to target some advertising is a fair price to pay in my opinion. I see no ethical issues here whatsoever.

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15 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat #5: If we were using Google Search / Facebook, knowing that a particular ad was going to be shown, and having a secret agenda in hopes that the students might be drawn to that ad (possibly for our product) then that would create ethical concerns. However, with no agenda for benefiting from the ads I do not see this being an issue. As for the benefits of social media outweigh the loss in quality of F2F, we must be careful to maintain balance. There are some students who will only share their thinking via social media. However, they still need opportunities to build their F2F social interaction skills. Mantra: Moderation and balance.

15 Oct
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tina gordon @gordie70

Chat #5: If we were using Google Search / Facebook, knowing that a particular ad was going to be shown, and having a secret agenda in hopes that the students might be drawn to that ad (possibly for our product) then that would create ethical concerns. However, with no agenda for benefiting from the ads I do not see this being an issue. As for the benefits of social media outweigh the loss in quality of F2F, we must be careful to maintain balance. There are some students who will only share their thinking via social media. However, they still need opportunities to build their F2F social interaction skills. Mantra: Moderation and balance.

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15 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

From my experience I have found that the protocols and guidelines around anything new usually comes after the fact. I think this is the case with social media. We are all gung ho to jump on the bandwagon and use social media but as we use it it becomes apparent that some guidelines are needed. I think we are just in the process of determining these parameters for social media. And if these guidelines are not taught at home or at school, how do we expect people to learn them? I think social media has its uses however I also believe that it is definitely changing the way people interact with each other. I ride the train to work and see that most people (90%) are either looking at their phone or listening to something wearing earbuds; disengaged from those around them. It's sad really.

15 Oct
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Susan @smroth

From my experience I have found that the protocols and guidelines around anything new usually comes after the fact. I think this is the case with social media. We are all gung ho to jump on the bandwagon and use social media but as we use it it becomes apparent that some guidelines are needed. I think we are just in the process of determining these parameters for social media. And if these guidelines are not taught at home or at school, how do we expect people to learn them? I think social media has its uses however I also believe that it is definitely changing the way people interact with each other. I ride the train to work and see that most people (90%) are either looking at their phone or listening to something wearing earbuds; disengaged from those around them. It's sad really.

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14 Oct Posted on W6: Chat 5- Ethics

Chat 5: - With respect to ad driven tools such as Google Search (to some extent) and Facebook in the classroom, I think that what we know with respect to their mining of data and targeting of promotions should cause concern. The blurring of lines between robust/authentic content and well placed "advertorial" material can potentially cause real confusion for students who are seeking legitimate resources for their research. - I tend to agree with Sherry Turkle's assessment of the societal costs of social media use. We can't afford for our population to lose the capacity for empathy. The irony of the extensive networking that social media affords is that it can still ultimately result in very inward looking perspectives and skewed self-perception. We need to encourage the strategic/practical/pragmatic use of social media, while bringing back the art of face-to-face communication and connection. - As entrepreneurs in education, I believe that it is actually possible for students' interests and a healthy bottom line to be served simultaneously, but I think that this only happens when it is learning outcomes that drive the initial concept of a venture - not a "right place, right time" approach to business opportunity.

14 Oct
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Maureen Glynn @glynnm

Chat 5: - With respect to ad driven tools such as Google Search (to some extent) and Facebook in the classroom, I think that what we know with respect to their mining of data and targeting of promotions should cause concern. The blurring of lines between robust/authentic content and well placed "advertorial" material can potentially cause real confusion for students who are seeking legitimate resources for their research. - I tend to agree with Sherry Turkle's assessment of the societal costs of social media use. We can't afford for our population to lose the capacity for empathy. The irony of the extensive networking that social media affords is that it can still ultimately result in very inward looking perspectives and skewed self-perception. We need to encourage the strategic/practical/pragmatic use of social media, while bringing back the art of face-to-face communication and connection. - As entrepreneurs in education, I believe that it is actually possible for students' interests and a healthy bottom line to be served simultaneously, but I think that this only happens when it is learning outcomes that drive the initial concept of a venture - not a "right place, right time" approach to business opportunity.

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